Help Needed: Difficult Things to Learn for Beginners

i feel that there is not enough general information attached to the chop or node help pages or even int he tutorial area… for instance a simple link this is a background on typical instruments and uses of the audio frequency spectrum should be attached a a help or external link in the audio nodes such as the band EQ node

teachmeaudio.com/production/ … o-spectrum

I think that what we are missing as a community is a link (and distinction) between how to use touch and how to do the things touch is used for.

because the latter is diverse, one can be a veteran in one are and not in another.

For example, I just did a commercial job where I had to use a lot of video in a corporate tradeshow exhibit. Even though I know a bit about Touch in 3D and other stuff. working with video put me at beginners level again. this is something I’ll try to talk about in its own post but I think we need more links out to more general knowledge.

Potentially, touch’s ‘viewer-in-tile’ interface makes it a perfect tool from which to explore computer graphics. I’d love to see some more tutes about lighting, materials etc. in a more general sense. Often the assumption is that we know this stuff and just need to learn how to do it in touch.

Rod.

an

Hey Ben

Thanks for your reply…I have been away from Touch for almost a month due to new projects, but am diving right back in now.
I had indeed looked the beginner tutorials first and I think I will watch them again to be on the safe side.

One other suggestion I would make is something like “The anatomy of a touch project”.
For example I don’t recall seeing in any video a clear explanation of what the hierarchy of a project is, starting with “/”, then “/project1”, etc…

I am also struggling with a clear understanding of the workflow with FBX geometry and UV coordinates etc…I will definitely post specific questions as they come up

Thanks again
Alex

ok here is one big difficult thing for beginners. the online or inline help for SOPS etc is very basic. its pretty much self evident stuff. there seems to be no elaboartion on “what happens if”

for instance

derivative.ca/wiki077/index. … Switch_SOP

the switch sop. great iput counts up the next element in the switch list is selected. but what happens if the input becomes greater than the number of INPUT OP’s… no idea. really my life is too short to have to figure this out myself. why cant it just say " for inputs greater than the number of INPUT OPS the selection will be invalid/or will LOOP"… just so i know … pleeeease…

Being quite new to Touch Designer, but quite experimented in programming (java based langagues) and in dataflow software like max/msp/jitter, I am currently struggling in simply drawing in 2D :confused:

I would like to take output of a trail and “redraw” it… Like making a custom trail, using my own aesthetic for the line it draw.

Hi Ombossa maybe best to post in Beginners Questions rather than here…
wish i coud help you with your actual question but im a noob as well… :stuck_out_tongue:

Hi Guys,

Sorry but im still finding inline help very inadequate.
for instance DAT’s im dealing with DAT tables and none of the help pages for TBL node or general DAT help tells me about the built in variablesyou might expect like ‘number of rows’ and ‘number of columns’. i would expect these built in constants to be included in each DAT node help as well as the general DAT group page…

ps if any one know what these constants are a hint would be great! thanks!

yeah, half the trouble is figuring out what things are called.

if you look for ‘variables’ rather than constants, things might start to make sense…

derivative.ca/wiki077/index. … =Variables

but also you will need to use expressions to get info about DATs.
try typing in the textport:

             [i]  exhelp tab*[/i]

that should give you just about every expression that can get info about a table and its contents.

also, there are some variable-related expressions for more complex scripts that might end up pasted in different paths etc. and need to know if the variables they are looking for make sense in relation to their new location…

             [i]  exhelp var*[/i]

I agree that the help wiki pages for individual ops should each link back to this stuff so it becomes possible to find the right info from a number of directions.

early on, we were all putting stuff into the wiki entries but Derivative folk (rightly I think) wanted to keep that stuff fairly clear and consistent so having everyone scribbling away might’ve been too messy. However, it might be good to suggest stuff like this in the RFE and wishlist forum:

               [viewforum.php?f=17](http://www.derivative.ca/Forum/viewforum.php?f=17)

or, if it’s a glaring logical failure in the documentation, bugs:

               [viewforum.php?f=12](http://www.derivative.ca/Forum/viewforum.php?f=12)

maybe we should start putting stuff in the discussion tab of a wiki page?

Rod.

Thanks Rob, thanks for the explanation and some Good points there…

As a beginner what I’m missing is a top down description of what Touch Designer does. The Wiki is bottom up - this cog does this, that lever controls that. I need also a design philosophy.

Example - trying to create a rectangle on screen, simple experiment. I have tried all kinds of TOPs because where I am coming from the same principle that would input an image or generate noise would generate a shape. (I’m coming from analogue video where I would try a square wave). But after banging around I think it’s better done with 3D objects, but I’m really not sure. That’s a ‘top down’ design flow.

What is the flow of working? I see it being used in the tutorials and I can emulate it but for a designer to explain it would be great.

Another request is that I be able to make the Wiki into printable sections, not just printable pages. That means I can read a bunch of related information while away from the computer and get a ‘big picture’.

Thanks.

Thanks for your suggestions Tom. We found a lot of new user in our workshop say the same thing, good documentation but no description of where to start. We’re looking at it and considering what it will take, its not an overnight fix.

We are also working on an offline version of the documentation for when you are not online, I’ll be sure to bring up the need for printing when this is implemented.

Cheers

One other thing I’m noticing now, spending more and more time with Touch, is the lack of clear learning path for scripting and expressions.
Seems like things can be done in different ways, and maybe a project that breaks down how a TUIK element is created or something of the sort would be very helpful

Alex

Just throwing this in for the designers of TouchDesigner as it is a great article on how to make a programming environment and a language more understandable and learnable.

worrydream.com/LearnableProgramming/

I think Touch, with its viewers in tiles, is potentially amazing for learning. I think that, that the concepts outlined in the article should be taken to heart by anyone making something like TouchDesigner.

rod.

Interesting thread!

I guess you guys will soon read a post by me. Still have to explore first though…

Now that would be amazing. To be able to print out, just like TomEllard wrote, sections depending on where you are in the learning stage. Maybe convert sections as PDF-files and import them to your smartphone or tablet.

  1. Building a simple character and setting up simple control rig
    Nothing nuts, just simple modeling with pulling a few points around, and maybe shape animate it, or Lattice, or single IK chain.

I really wish there was more character animation examples. I really need an explanation of how a pre-rigged/skinned model can be imported into touch, then control rigged and manipulated. I would really love to be able to do kinect puppeting but I really can’t get my head around IK/Skinning/Bones in TD.

Almost all of the character animation done in TouchDesigner is via FBX models imported from other packages such as Maya, Cinema4D, Houdini, etc. As you have found, the modeling tools in TouchDesigner are limited with respect to character creation. We don’t have plans to spend too much time overhauling these tools for character work as there are already more mature packages available which are the go to favourites for character setup.

However, we will continue to improve the learning materials and features for general modeling and the included 3D tools.

Have you checked out the OP Snippets in recent builds? They are found under the Help menu can consist of hundreds of examples of OPs in action. The more popular OPs are covered now, but we’ll continue to add examples to this until every OP has a few examples.

OP Snippets is available in the new official build 23400 just posted, or any of the experimental builds from the last couple of months.

We hope you find them helpful, comments welcome.

Where to download some demo projects in touch designer? I just want to open and see how they were made and so on, does anyone know a good place where to get the projects? :slight_smile:

If you open the Palette you can drag examples into your network.

Also see the Shared .tox Components forum